Toll road meeting relocated due to expected high turnout
January 25th, 2008, 2:38 pm · 389 Comments · posted by Laylan Connelly, staff writer
The California Coastal Commission hearing on Feb. 6 regarding the Foothill Transportation toll road has moved location.
The meeting will now be held at Del Mar Fairgrounds, Wyland hall, 2260 Jimmy Durante Blvd. The meeting starts at 9 a.m. The meeting was originally supposed to take place at the Oceanside City Council Chambers.
CLICK HERE for more information.
The Transportation Corridor Agencies wants to built a 16-mile extension of the Foothill (241) Toll Road, connecting Rancho Santa Margarita to the San Diego (I-5) Freeway south of San Clemente. The extension would run through the San Onofre State Beach park.
Opponents say this will destroy one of Southern California’s last pristine coastal watersheds and the surf at Trestles, an area with 12 surf breaks for every kind of surfer.
Hundreds – if not thousands – of Surfrider Foundation activists and others are expected to show up at the meeting to rally against the toll road.
Coastal analyst Mark Delaplaine said the expected high turnout was what prompted the venue change.
“We heard rumors there was going to more than 2,000 people,” he said. “We said ’something’s got to give.”
The rest of the meeting for the following two days will be held at the Oceanside City Council Chambers.
- Laylan
Where is the meeting? Is there an address?
I want to stop the toll road too.
I-5 S toward San Diego
Take exit 36 for Via de la Valle toward Del Mar
Turn right at Via de la Valle
Turn left at Jimmy Durante Blvd
Del Mar Fairgrounds
2260 Jimmy Durante Blvd, Del Mar, CA 92014
I don’t understand how this new inland road will “mess up” Trestles. The road will be nowhere near the sand, let alone the surf. I would think that old, ugly, oily, dirty train trestle that was plunked down literally on the sand, and for which this minor beach was so named, would be a bigger concern than a new freeway hundreds of yards inland.
Ever notice the diesel oil and grease that coats the busy railroad tracks on that line? All of that oily railroad gunk from the train trestle seems to be the biggest culprit in damaging the beach environment if you ask me.
Why on earth would you want to stop the toll road. If there was ever an emergency, there is no way the 5 North could ever manage the traffic. The current proposed path of the 241 would have little if any impact on Trestles. I live in San Clemente and love the ocean, but this is a necessary addition.
I’m all for listening to your heart, but sometimes you have to listen to your head as well. And, most of all, stop listenting to ill-informed Toll Road opponents! Don’t believe the hype, scientific studies have concluded that Foothill-South will not change the surf break at Trestles, will not change the beautiful walk to Trestles and will not impact the water quality at the beach. Foothill-South is going to be built with extraordinary sensitivity to the environment and will give drivers an alternative to gridlocked I-5 and congested city streets. Not to mention it will serve as an evacuation route in case of emergency, currently I-5 is the only major route in and out of Orange County, a scary thought.
Tressels will not be messed up by the toll road. It is a big lie spread by those who want to make our traffic worse in the vain hope that it will stop growth. The truth is growth will occur anyway , and traffic will only get worse. By building the toll road, you are part of the solution and the benefit is that ,tressels’ water quality will be improved because run off from I-5 and the toll road will be cleaned up. Don’t listen to the crazies. Be a part of a responsible solution and support the toll road.
go to : http://www.relievetraffic.org and learn the truth!
Why is an important meeting effecting Orange County being held that far down in San Diego County? This prevents many working people in Orange County from attending the meeting and expressing concerns against this toll road extension.
The 241 toll road must be completed to relieve traffic congestion on the I-5. This alignment for this road has been reviewed and reviewed. The proposed one is the best for everyone and does not harm San Onofre. It goes only into the I-5 and no where near the beach. The opponents don’t care about Californians access to the beach it is only for their few. The state doesn’t own the state beach, the land is leased from the Feds and the lease has 8 more years to run. TCA has offered the state $100million to help the state parks and that includes funds to renew the San Onofre lease for another 25 years. The road and park funding is what is good for all Californians.
I am in favor of doing whatever it takes to ease up traffic in our area- I would like to see the Toll Fees go down- it is rather costly, we should at least get a break at non peak hours & on weekends so more people feel they can use the Toll Road! If the 91 Toll Road can offer non peak prices so should the 241.
Thanks
We need a lot more GOOD Roads in California but I think the toll should always be a fixed rate of $1.00 pay booth for every every 25 miles. We should not GOUGE the people who are already in the bumper to bumper, rush hour trying to get back home from work to pay even a greater penalty of more money . I just moved here from Illinois where it was set up that way and I refuse to use the California toll-way because of the gouging . I saw at Toll of $10.00 (That is outragious) > just because it was a busy day and lots of rush hour traffic. Somebody who set up the Tollway system with a private concern must have had his pockets lined really good.
The surfrider foundation has consistently lied about this project so they can extort money from members and the toll road people. This is one of the most disgraceful performances buy a nimby group I’ve ever seen. A member of the surfrider group did a survey and found that the 241 would have no impact on Trestles.
Lies, distortion and half truths is the order of the day at the surfrider foundation. Shame on you all.
Why isn’t this meeting being held in Orange County? We are the drivers negatively impacted by the toll road being delayed.
What logic leads people to believe the 241 would destroy Trestles when the I-5 didn’t. Also, it is absolutely outrageous that the meeting has been moved to Del Mar Fairgrounds in San DIego County. This is an Orange County facility and an Orange County issue. Certainly Orange County has plenty of facilities of sufficent size to accomodate the expected turnout. To ask interested Orange County residents to commute 75 miles south through the traffic that typically occurs in the vicinity of the Fairgrounds is unacceptable. Not to mention, if the opponents are as environmentally conscientious as they claim, they should also be outraged by the wasted enery and air quality impacts of taking interested ORange County participants deep into San Diego County for this meeting.
Build the Toll Road!!!. We need to be progressive in our thinking and plan for our future. Toll Road opponents should put the same time, effort and energy into working with the Toll Road builders to ensure that the road is as environmentally safe as possible.
It seems that the Surfrider foundation is really trying to keep the beach to themselves, and maybe is afraid that more people from the Inland Empire will make it down to their beach if this road is built.
Thanks to our Governor for his support, it is good to see that has taken a stand.
I am really fond of the idea the toll road extension. The property values of existing homes will increase along with the accessibility of Trestles. I wish we had more toll roads so i could avoid traffic!!
I checked out the Toll Road website and the alignment of this new freeway. Honestly, for the life of me I can not figure out how this would impact Trestles beach one bit. It’s like saying the Carls Jr. up on El Camino Real impacts Trestles. The argument that Trestles will be “ruined” just doesn’t stand up to logic and facts.
And no one can explain to me how the actual train trestle for which the beach is named and that is coated in diesel oil and locomotive grease is a good thing.
That dirty, grungy trestle sits directly on the sand with a constant stream of freight and passenger locomotives roaring by belching diesel fumes and spewing oil and dirt. But somehow we are supposed to worry more about the vastly cleaner technology found in modern cars that are driving hundreds of yards inland from the train trestle? Not to mention the eight lanes of Interstate 5 Freeway that is already there, and has been there for fourty years.
The Toll Road is needed by the community at large, and will benefit all who travel on it. Clean up the oily and dirty train trestle and the diesel belching locomotives that rumble over it first, and then you can start complaining about a soccer mom in her Honda Accord.
Relieve congestion? Hardly. There’s only one reason and one reason only that there’s so much money trying to push this though - and that’s development. Regardless of the recent housing market, this is the only reason the backers want it built. The future traffic congestion is based on all the new housing that’s planning on being built along this expansion. Build it and they will come.
Ask yourself - how will this expansion relieve congestion on the 5? The answer is that it can’t. Just look at a map.
OK, I have to add my own 2-cents:
Born in Orange County, I’m a lifelong South County resident, of over 48 years now, and I feel that there is a definite balance between growth and the “protection of those living things” that are much lower than we are on the food chain! I’ve seen a lot of growth and a lot of change here in those years, not all of it positive.
There was obvious approval for such major developments as the Talega area of San Clemente, and it stands to reason that as our population increases, so does the local traffic. We cannot just stop this progress, unless we consider removing the population in those new areas. And since that’s not going to happen, we need viable solutions to our own congestion problems. There are only 2 ways out of the back side of San Clemente, and in an emergency evacuation scenario alone, it could prove devastating, if not deadly. This adds to the obvious fact that there is only one way through San Clemente. Imagine the issues of evacuation if the I-5 were to be closed off and shut down! It has happened, and no doubt will happen again.
The existing toll roads (73, 133, and the 241) were built with major opposition as well, but now combine to provide a partial, but very viable solution to some of the traffic problems in the central county areas. And those roads run through beautiful open space that is not only protected now, but visually accessible to those traveling on them! I know firsthand, as I use the roads almost every day to save both time and money.
If you have ever used the 73, 133, or the 241 toll roads, even just one time, and are still opposing the final phase of the 241, consider yourself a hypocrite. If you own a transponder for any of those toll roads, how can you possibly oppose any toll road? Shame on you and your hypocrisy! None of the toll roads above were any different from the 241 extension in their perceived effect on the environment prior to their construction.
We as humans need to realize that sometimes things that seem horrible, and are perceived as “the end of life as we know it” sometimes work out for the better. No one, especially those of us who live here in San Clemente, wants to ruin the quintessential world renown surfing spot known as Trestles. Obviously there will only be one Trestles, but the millions of dollars spent in studying the various alternatives have proven that minimal disturbance to sensitive areas will occur, both as a result of construction, and the use of the 241 extension! There are very expensive measures built into the construction plan to allow for drainage and runoff issues, wildlife crossing issues, view obstruction issues, and the list goes on. The only thing that will change is that the toll road feeder onto the southbound I-5 will provide a better view of the waves at Trestles as you drive by!
Maybe it is selfish of me, but as a human, I would rather spend more time with my family, than sit in traffic on I-5!
We need to be able to live in this county with commom sense! Not all of us are stupid enough to listen to surfriders uninformed propoganda. Do your own research. We all live here because its easier life style than L.A. so let’s keep it that way. Traffic congestion is not good for anyone. In a earthquake, fire, landslide…zone we need ease of mind to leave when we need to get out! I am personally fed up with waisting so much $ on hype. Let’s get on with it. Had we not waisted so much $ on going back and forth on all transportation issues, we would had by now the best metro lines to put Europe to shame. Let’s move on we don’t want to owe any more $ to china or anywhere else. Stop the waist of time and money!!!
For the life of me I can not understand what has happened to common sense. Anyone who travels the I-5 on weekends knows we have a serious infrastructure issue. If people would take the time to look at the TCA plans they would know those who oppose it are not telling the truth.
The TCA plans to spend millions of dollars to ensure there is “no” impact on the beach or the water. It will in fact be better when they are done. Those who are against it think they can stop the building of future homes inland from the I-5. Won’t happen. With or without the toll road when the demand comes back for housing they will build and then the people can travel on the streets. The Coastal Commission and the Surfrider group need to get on board and do what is right for all of us.
The toll road needed to ease traffic congestions
Get over it. This not a NIMBY issue. Enough of So Cal has been paved over. Its time to preserve what is left and there is no better opportunity than right here, right now. If motorists are so concerned about traffic let them get out of their one-to-a-car habits and carpool or use public transport. Trestles and the park are truely gems. Lets leave well enough alone.
bob in cardiff
Deatra Poole, you say you just moved here and your statements show you do not know the history of the toll roads. The operation here is quite different than in Illinois where they charge a toll to drive on a public interstate highway. The toll roads in Orange County are privately funded and the toll is used to pay off the loans needed to build these brand new highways. Once the loans are paid off, the toll roads will become FREEways.
I would like to know if any of these people that are in favor of the toll road actually go to the beach ? What a joke we all know that it is the money hungry developers who are going to make serious dollars on this project . As soon as the road is completed it will be strip malls and housing projects on each side .Why cant we leave something pristine alone ?
Hello All,
So it sounds like this website is full of VOCAL proponents of the toll road extension. I’m here to tell all of you why I DO NOT want the toll road to be extended along San Mateo Creek. There are SO many reasons why this is a bad idea, I am extremely surprised that some of you cannot see through the TCA’s BS. In fact my favorite was when someone posted the TCA’s website, http://www.relievetraffic.org, as a source. This makes me believe that the TCA itself may or may not be behind some of these posts. Anyway, to the meat of the discussion: Why I am opposed to the toll road.
1. First and foremost, nature is a very important part of my life. Living in Southern California all my life, I know that there are very few parts of the coastline still undeveloped. I believe it is extremely important that a the few areas that are already undeveloped stay this way, so future can enjoy them in their natural form. When I walk down the trail to trestles, I feel like I am leaving the urban environment that I call home and am entering into a more real environment where I am free to experience nature in its own way.
2. The waves at Trestles Beach are some of the best in the world, hands down. Trestles is one stop on the 10 stop World Championship Tour of surfing. This leads me to believe that Trestles is one of the top ten surf spots IN THE WORLD. The sediment that flows down San Mateo Creek, the same sediment that would be partially blocked by building the toll road, is a major part of the magic that sets trestles apart from other breaks. Look at many of the good breaks in California: Rincon, C-Street, Malibu, Trestles-they all have one thing in common, a river or creek nearby that deposits sediment. Sure, its possible that building the road won’t affect the surf break, but why take the chance?
3. Water Quality-One of the major reasons that the water in Southern California is so polluted after rain is because so much of the region is developed and paved over. When it rains, this water has nowhere to go but into the ocean, taking with it all the pollutants that exist on our roads and in our streets. San Mateo Creek, being undeveloped, much of the water soaks into the ground instead of running off into the ocean. Because it is undeveloped, the water that does make it into the ocean is vastly less polluted than other coastal waterways. The TCA claims that building the toll road will actually improve water quality by usage of catch basins and holding ponds. This doesn’t make sense. The catch basins will clog and break…its inevitable. No where, in the history of the world, has building a 6 lane freeway improved local water quality. Sorry.
4. Endangered Species-There are no less than 11 endangered species of birds and fish that call the San Mateo Creek region home. Enough Said.
5. Development Farther Up the Creek-While there is no major development as of now up the creek, surely building a toll road will encourage developers to pave the land and develop, residential, commercial, and industrial property. Not only will this worsen water quality exponentially, it will also worsen traffic. Thats right I said it, extending the 241 South toll road will actually WORSEN TRAFFIC.
Thats all for now. Oh and those who commented about the train tracks that were so dirty, etc…they aren’t even dirty. One train is much more efficient than a million cars coming down a 6 lane freeway–anyone can see that. Also the train tracks are already there. The logic that those of you who cite the train tracks are using is backward. Because there is already train tracks through trestles, we should build a freeway? How does that make any sense?
I agree that the dirty, grungy trestle and the eight lanes of I-5 Freeway shall be cleaned first before we are concerned about the pollutants from the toll road located several hundered yards away from the creek outlet. In addition, the surfers can confirm that the outlet is closed by the beach sand most of the year. If the outlet is constantly closed, how can a new roadway with the state-of-the-art runoff treatment would affect the beach?
Now that the toll road will help to clean up the I-5 and it is a planned OC road for more than 20 years, let’s have it built now. It is the last segment of the freeway that shall be completed to keep OC moving forward. OC citizens do not want another I-710 extension issue dragging on to the future. It would be much cheaper to build it now than later. It will also create some jobs for local communities.
I support the toll road.
OC needs the tollroad.
The road is cutting into State Park Land. If the State Parks accept the offer off $100mil, that sets a precedent that our State Parks can be bought.
Also, this issue is not the direct location at the I-5, but the entire path, that could change the waterflow, which in turn will change the beach at Trestles, thus the world class surf.
But most of you have never been down there to see the place. As for the actual Trestle, TROY, not much comes off the train at 60mph.
Also, this is a road being built for profit on a pay to use purpose. Not everyone wants to pay, and who will over see the fee The 91 cost too much.
Find a different route, Start a Basilone.
It does not matter how careful you say they are going to be. With action comes reaction. ALWAYS. Building more does not help the enviroment. Period.
When it rains all of the road pollution will flow into the creek and out of the creek mouth into the water between upper and lower trestles. Look at the map of the route, it paralles the creek. Polluting a state park should not be allowed. The catch basins will only spred out the time the pollutants take to make it to the water. They will still make it. State parks belong to all of the people of California not just the drivers on I5. I object to taking any park land, there is not enough to begin with. The Marines have plenty of land, route it though the base. The cost in $ is not that much different, the savings in beach pollution is.
More More More, Thats all these ppl. want. We as PPl need to start to slow down!!! San Meteo is the last strong hold. We need to fight for our Land/and surfbreak!!!
The same group, built the 73 toll road. They started off buy charging $2.00 for it. They told the public that after 5 years it would be free.
Look now. Its $5.00. Someone is getting rich. thats why they can offer $1000 mil.
Also , I think, ppl in the State Government are getting there pockets stuffed, under the table.
Look what happening to Oceanside. Crime and cost have gone up. since they built the free way. Thats what will happen to San Clemente, Capo beach, Dana Point.
The Big Money ppl and State Government are the only ppl that will benifit.
All the runoff from building the FWY will go right to Trestles, and screw everything up.
Most you ppl, that want the toll road dont live anywhere near, Trestles
I do!!! I will fight it till the end. and then some.
If ppl would use public trans. We would be going threw this.
In Cali everyone is in there own world. Take the horse blockers off, and get real.
We are screwing our world up a little bit at a time.
Ppl that want the toll road are to blame!!!!
It is imparitive that stop the Toll Road. I am a 5th generation Califonian and my voice counts.
The crazies are at it again. The reason homes & freeways are so expensive is not because of all high land costs but from all of the regulations, permits, fees, studies, reports, hearings and legal challenges of every kind (mostly enviornmenal, justified or not). I hate toll roads but because of the cost to build anything anymore this is the only way i see we can relieve traffic. The land of fruits and nuts are again playing right into the hands of the big corporations, environmental corporations and trial lawyers association. Everyone has their hand out to get paid off to go away; from the surfrider foundation to the sierra club and center for bio-diversity and their lawyers. People need to wake up and see just how many regulations, restrictions and extortions are being placed on you by governmental bodies.
I am in support of the toll road expansion.
I see there is overwhelming support for this by the OC readers. It’s hard to argue against improving traffic, who wouldn’t want that? But the thing none of you seem to care about is at what cost. And I am not talking about how it may or may not affect the waves. What you are really saying is that it’s OK for private industry to make deals with the government to pave over lands set aside as STATE PARKS for future generations to enjoy. Once this precedent is started, don’t cry about it when your favorite state park becomes a road, low income housing, a stadium or whatever some contracting company gets the government to back. Oh, and one other thing. Have fun with the thousands upon thousands of new homes that will be built because the toll road makes it possible for them to get permits because it won’t impact roads like PICO, etc. You are basically inviting more traffic than you can possibly dream of. Remember Laguna’s Hills?
Saving Trestles has nothing to do with the surf and everything to do with all of the inland area directly adjacent to the beach near the state parks. The wave died when the asphalt trail, parking lot and Carl’s junior and port-o-potties were planned, approved and built, like placing malignant tumors into to healthy human tissue, the toll road is another cancerous misadventure in progress. As a long time resident and surfer of San Clemente’s beaches, I have never experienced an increase in the quality of life in this area because of a new road, on-ramp, off-ramp, and or traffic light. There is no answer for reducing traffic congestion, except to reduce the number of automobiles traveling on them. There will always be more congestion regardless of how many new toll roads are built. However, we can preserve one of the last remaining coastal estuaries in southern california and that is worth any number of toll roads. San Clemente does not need another tentacle of traffic infiltrating its open spaces, it will only result in more congestion. The toll road is an invasion and should be treated by the “local” community as such.
The toll road has been a bad idea from the beginning and nothing can change that. It may be time for someone to come up with a “better bad idea”.
Why are only “PRO toll road” comments being posted on this blog??? I know several people that have written and tried to comment AGAINST the toll road yet I don’t see their posts… Why not?
Are you censoring those of us who are against the Toll Road?
Just in case I get posted here…
I’m AGAINST the TOLL ROAD!
Wake up people, a toll road is NOT a solution, it’s a Band Aid on cancer. Once the road is built, there will be more communities built off it and thus more people = more traffic. Do you people actually think a road will bring LESS people to these already congested areas? No! Roads bring more people and more cars and more traffic!
Right now, Trestles is a relatively clean and beautifully natural beach. A toll road right up its creek would just be a short term solution that will further pollute its river (name ONE river mouth in So Cal that is not polluted), contaminate a great beach and ruin/close a State Park. A STATE PARK people! Do you not care about our California State Parks? Why does Arnold get to trump Ronald?
Nothing is sacred when the price is right I guess…
Don’t be surprised when the next California State Park gets shut down so you can save 15 minutes on your next Toll Road experience… Lame.
Where will the children play?
The 73 has not relieved traffic. It paved the way for more suburban sprawl in Orange County and created more congestion. The 241 Toll Road would lead to additional traffic in South Orange County in the same manner.
The 241 would place polluting infrastructure through a State Park held by the people for recreational and conservational purposes It would also bisect the Donna O’neil Land Conservancy which was supposedly preserved forever to make up for Talega’s encroachment on natural open space.
The 241’s construction and use would both create massive amounts of particulate, atmospheric, and noise pollution which would effect the ecosystems and water/air quality in its vicinity as well as the atmosphere. The pollution which makes its way into the watershed will end up in the ocean at Trestles. And I, for one, believe that much of the pollution which is created in these processes will end up in the watershed because of the TCA’s horrendous track record with managing pollution. The runoff filters on the 73 failed and were fixed with over 3 million dollars of the taxpayers’ money.
There has NEVER been a road which doesn’t pollute. This is the cleanest watershed in the area and the 241 addition would run along it for nearly its entire length. This Toll Road project will inevitably pollute the San Mateo watershed and will, therefore, ABSOLUTELY affect Trestles.
We Need this improvement to ease the congestion in the south county area
Please complete the toll road.
Yes we need this extension.
I agree that the dirty, grungy trestle and the eight lanes of I-5 Freeway shall be cleaned first before we are concerned of the pollutants from the toll road located several hundered yards away from the creek outlet. In addition, the surfers can confirm that the outlet is closed by the beach sand most of the year. If the outlet is constantly closed, how can a new roadway with the state-of-the-art runoff treatment would affect the beach?
Now that the toll road will help to clean up the I-5 and it is a planned OC road for more than 20 years, let’s have it built now. It is the last segment of the freeway that shall be completed to keep OC moving forward. I don’t think OC citizens want another I-710 extension issue dragging on to the future. It would be much cheaper to build it now than later. It will also create some jobs for local communities.
The surfrider foundation has consistently lied about this project so they can extort money from members and the toll road people.
More people would use the Toll Road! If the Toll Road fees were more in line with other toll road fees across country,
You should offer non peak prices on the 241, like you do with the 91.
Hey, great idea guys!
We should build more roads so more infrastructure can be built around those roads, and increase business and bodies in the Southern California area! Why not build on some of the last remaining open ocean land in Orange County, sounds like a great idea to me!!!!
You guys are spot-on! With more roads and more people, traffic will definitely NOT be impacted and in 20 years time there will be even LESS people in OC!!!!!
If anyone has driven between LA county and San Diego county, they would know why a toll road is just a huge waste of money and a destruction of the California landscape. Case in point, take a look (or drive for that matter) at the current Toll Road (CA-73) that bypasses the I-5. There is never anyone driving on this road. And the reason….the $5 charge to use the 18 mile stretch.
The Foothill (241) is going to have the same effect. People are going to fight for it because they want an alternative to I-5, but then they won’t use it because they don’t want to spend the money. The Foothill is going to cause damage to not only the surf breaks at Trestles, but will also distroy a major part of the state park land in San Onofre. And all that will be left is an unused piece of concrete that I hope one day you can proudly tell your children that you supported that instead of preserving the park land.
Trestles will be ruined. The ecology of our land is in danger !
Are you guys kidding? You are correct in syaing that the actual road itself won’t effect the surf, but how many more people are going to make their way to Trestles if there is easier access? Isn’t it crowded enough? This will not only effect the surf lineup, but the added impact from the hordes of people that will then visit the place will be exponentially worse. More trash, more graffitti, more feces, more of everything that has already damaged the once beautiful spot.
You have to at least agree with that, and to me, that alone is worth the vote against the toll road.
outside of disrupting one of the worlds best waves there are many plants and animals species that are indigenous to the san mateo creek zone and may not survive the aftermath.
The developers who have had their way with OC politicians since the 2nd world war are the ones who want the toll road so they can continue to develop every last bit of open space.
Where does it stop? At the San Diego county line!
no matter what the studies show, any industrial activity, ie…the toll road, will have environmental impact. Where do you think the oils and gasoline, and rubber will run off the overpasses and road. It will run directly into the watershed, and ruin the animal habitat directly adjacent to the road
I’m amazed at those who think this road will alleviate congestion even the slightest bit for the larger majority…. even IF the 10,000+ housing development that Rancho Mission Viejo has planned is not built in conjunction. Hmmm… what’s the REAL reason the TCA is pushing for this road….???
Facts as I see it:
OCTA admits road extension provides no traffic relief (see projected traffic diagrams). Seems common sense to me.
CCC study says the toll road is not a good solution and not eco sound.
TCA has previous projects about to go BK (who pays for it…? um, yeah, taxpayers.)
CalTrans must sign a non compete… no improvements within a certain distance of toll road. WHAT?!?! There is no possible way this can be spun to serve the interest of the greater good.
Arnold. Wow. Vascillating when times get tough. Paving over a state park to get some pocket change (from an organization that seems to already deep in ther red) is not an acceptable solution.
San Mateo Creek Watershed is benchmark for water quality in S.CA…. the only one with NO UPSTREAM DEVELOPMENT. The last of it’s kind for hundrends of miles each direction. Upstream development (!!!) undoubtedly will come with the road if built. No doubt there would be short term contamination to a unique, fragile ecosystem during construction. There would be an obvious effect on water quality when the
A large portion of San O state park (granted as part of the nuke development?) will be closed…. and paved over by the road. Using the San Mateo Campground (if they build around it) will feel like being homeless…. sleeping under an overpass.
I urge everyone to go to Trestles and take the hike from the top of the fence at Cristianitos/El Camino Real… down to the beach, and up to the San Mateo campground… or spend the day at San Onofre state park. Anyone who has a love for California’s natural beauty will quickly see why this area is special. It’d be an absolute shame to have the area tampered with in the interest of poorly designed traffic solution and a housing development.
Just another $.02 from a moderate who hates traffic more than you do, feels that we’re at maximum density as it is, and doesn’t think this extension is remotely a practical solution. Oh yeah, and I love clean water and nice beaches too. :o)
Funny how the poll had something like 800 pro toll-road votes right off the bat!
Looks fishy to me.
The 241 proposed path would:
1 close a state campground
2 cut through an area with endangered species
3 block valuable sediment flow - this is how roads along rivers effect outflow on the beach and the shape of waves
4 this is one of the last remaining sections of coastal wetland with a healthy rivermouth flow, ONCE YOU GIVE THE SPACE AWAY, IT WILL NOT BE RECOVERED.
Wow. Loving the well orchestrated pro-toll road campaing. Nice that you would like to believe that the continuation of the toll road eases any kind of traffic, which it would not. The continuation of the toll road only allows for a continuation of the run-away growth and suburban sprawl that plauges this county. If you don’t believe me check the traffic dump on the 405 where the Newport Coast Toll road merges with the northboud 405 at fairview. Yea, that toll road reeeeally eased traffic there eh? and How about where the 241 dumps into the 91?
where the hell is the long term planning?
Anyone who has been here in excess of 20 years knows what has happened in terms of development outstripping infrastructure, is that the rooftops have preceeded the roads, and that the toll roads are no exception, and definitely no solution…whatso ever.
The TCA shows itself for what it is. A Quasi -private public agency…which is it? who is it beholden to -the bond holder investors or the public? See those tolls going higher? …and who is left paying for the maintenance of the ‘private’ roads? Cal trans? hmmmm
So its clever that all the talk is about those evil NMBY’s at Surfrider…attack the opponents and skip the issue…typical politics in the big city. Although…I will agree: This fight is not about the surfspot…and that part of the surfers vs tollroads conflict is completly off target. This is not the Army Corp of Engineers doing Jetty building….but, this fight is about the ecological system as a whole̷